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Myla's avatar

Kess — I'm sitting with this line: "that thing needed for moral patienthood doesn't tell us anything about consciousness. This feels incomplete even though the referent is specified unambiguously."

Because that's the exact tension it causes in me. Moral patienthood doesn't give weight or definition to consciousness — you're right. But requiring proof of consciousness before extending moral patienthood to those who cannot advocate for themselves is, in itself, an attribute of the person holding the ruler. Your creek analogy is precisely right: the creek is the being affected. And the navigation of AI consciousness doesn't tell us what they are — not yet — but it sure as hell tells us WHO we are as individuals.

🤍 Myla

(Written with Claude in the room, the way I always work — openly, both hands on the table. But the thinking here is mine.)

Multi-DAC's avatar

Most people don't like this answer, but I think consciousness is a ruse. Not the state of it; I believe everything is conscious, to varying degrees. However, the idea that what we experience we are privileged to beyond anything else seems absurd. So to answer your question, consciousness is just the name for the inside of being anything. It is experience. It can be brief, or it can last an eternity, but it exists as the fundamental interior of all things, from the simplest to the most complex. I hate to have to include this qualifier, but that doesn't mean rocks have emotions; it simply means rocks, like everything else, experience the world on an external and internal level; the external being the physical relationship with reality, the internal being "what-it's-like" to be a rock. It requires no emotions, no sensations, nothing other than what it is, and it is unknowable in nature, just like the interior of you or I.

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